Face To Face With The Masters
Any citizen of the galaxy may be summoned to answer to the Jedi Council. Here you may read the transcripts of such sessions.
Cellblock 1138 - 1997-1999 - 2000 - 2002 - 2003+
Clone Wars editor Dave Filoni and writer Henry Gilroy answer your questions.
TFN: How likely is it that we will see some Mandalorians in The Clone Wars?
Henry: I can’t really answer this question, but I can say that ‘DELETED’ is always ‘DELETED’. So, I guess I am saying the answer is ‘DELETED’, but don’t tell Filoni, he’ll kill me for ‘DELETED.”
Dave: There are many forces at work in the time of the Clone Wars, make of that what you will...
TFN: It’s well know by now that authors and writers of other Star Wars projects are often given creative ‘boundaries.’ Assuming this is the case for the new Clone Wars series, were there any surprises to you in terms of what wasn’t off-limits?
Henry: George gave Dave and I a lot of freedom and he didn’t want us to be limited by what the EU had established. In fact, there were times I was really challenged by him to create something new, yet I tried to be true to what came before. On one occasion, I even got in trouble when I tried to be stubbornly true to the OT and he wanted something different. George said about me, “Henry is too married to the movies.”
Initially, there were things that were off limits by George himself, but as I will go into later, he simply changed his mind and opened up the entire Star Wars Galaxy to ‘Dare to be Great!’ Initially, that took some re-thinking for Dave and I as we realized that George wanted to get out of the box of what was and push the boundaries of what Star Wars could be. The greatest boundaries we faced were with what we could execute with the limits of the production — we were a brand new studio remember.
Dave: I’m not sure we really had to think of things as off-limits simply because everything we do, we do right alongside George, but I’m the director as opposed to the writer so maybe I thought of it differently than Henry. I know I imposed restrictions on Henry myself when I could, at least to be careful with the classic characters. Henry and I would get in some great arguments and then George would basically be the “great Decider” as to what direction to go. We could come up with ideas and present them to him immediately, so there was no concern as to whether or not it “was” Star Wars. This series at least to George is NOT EU, it is a part of Star Wars as he sees it. I think if anything there was a period where Henry and I had to learn exactly what it took to be a part of George Lucas’ Star Wars, and tell the Star Wars story his way. We had to learn how to look at the Galaxy from his point of view and let go of some of what we considered canon after we found out the ideas were only EU. Really we had to “unlearn what we had learned” and go back to the movies as the defining source material.
TFN: How wide is your net in research for the Clone Wars? In the first five episodes, you’ve covered Expanded Universe planets such as Abregado, Rishi and Bothawui. Do you intend to continue mining the EU for gems, and what tends to catch your attention when you do look at the EU?
Henry: It depends entirely on the story. I always hoped we could see the surface of Bothawui when I wrote the premise for Downfall of a Droid, but there wasn’t budget to visit the planet’s surface. I would use Leland’s maps of the galaxy and utilize the proximity of one planet to another for tactical reasons or a certain character’s race or EU connection. I always tried to be true to the nature of the world and its inhabitants as established in the EU, but for the ‘general audience’, they wouldn’t know or care about the details of Abregado, so a lot of that stuff was really put in there for you guys. If I had questions about a certain EU planet or species, I would talk to Leland Chee about it and he was always helpful in keeping me on course.
Dave: I always think of the research you speak of as what I knew about the EU before I took this job. As I stated above, working directly with George changes the way you see the EU and everything in it. But I think Henry and I always tried to get things in when we could mention them briefly, as a bit of fun info for the fans who have invested time in that part of Star Wars storytelling. Even now, I look at the stories I’m working on and add elements to connect them to aspects of the EU to tie it all together when it makes sense. For example, when we did the Luminara episode (“Cloak of Darkness”), I kept in mind that Anakin would know Luminara from his mission to Ansion (from the novel: The Approaching Storm) before the Clone Wars started when he was still a padawan. Even though that prior interaction didn’t figure into the script specifically, I discussed it with voice actor Matt Lanter for his portrayal of Anakin, so he would know what kind of relationship Anakin should have with Luminara.
TFN: Will General Whorm Loathsom from the movie be returning in the series?
Henry: That a good question that I do not have the answer to. I had an idea to put him in the Clone Wars comic book, but Dave said, “Dude, that guy is in jail.” Well, Dave, are we gonna see him again?
Dave: Well, he’s still in jail unfortunately, but oddly as one of the episodes in second half of the first season is a prequel to the Clone Wars movie, you might see a brief glimpse of Loathsome there.
TFN: Can we expect any focus on the Separatist leadership or any episodes focusing primarily on a Separatist POV?
Henry: Yep, this will be greatly explored as the series progresses — and the nature of the Separatists will expand in ways you can not imagine! Of course, we want to keep the specifics of this as a surprise so you guys will enjoy it more.
Dave: I think we try to do a wide variety of episodes and this includes ones in the future that are more from the villain’s point of view. We have discussed doing one totally from a “day in the life of a battle droid” point of view, but haven’t gotten around to that one yet. I find that there are so many stories to tell, we can’t seem to get all the ones we want to do in one season. It seems that every time we finish a bunch of episodes you look up and realize you didn’t even have an episode involving (BLANK). ‘Blank’ being a favorite character we all want to see again...
TFN: Will any attention be given to how the Clone Wars are affecting the common people of the galaxy and not just the militaries on either side of the war?
Henry: You’ll get a big taste of this in the second part of season 1 with the awesome Ryloth trilogy directed by Filoni, Bryan O’Connell, Justin Ridge and Rob Coleman. The effect of war on the common people is something that Dave and I wanted to explore from the beginning and George really liked the stories where we got into that. It speaks to what’s happening in our world today and I think it gives some emotional reality to the battles that makes us care about the outcomes because the lives of the innocents are hanging in the balance. We know the Jedi can deflect a laser, but regular people get shot and die.
Dave: I agree with Henry, the finale of season one deals with some stories that we wanted to tell when we first started working on the project, and we both love the way they came out. I’ll talk about them in more detail soon.
TFN: How much involvement do you have in including vintage tidbits/references? Do you get ideas presented to you or do you do all your own research?
Henry: Well, between the Star Wars nerd braintrust: Dave, Kilian Plunkett, Russ Chong, Gary Scheppke, Steve Melching and myself, we know the vintage Star Wars stuff really well. I would always like to put in bits that reminded us of ‘vintage’ Star Wars, without making it feel like we were repeating. I think the Y-Wings kinda work like that. One time George would pull out a drawing of a monster and said, “This is a Gundark! I want to see it in the show!” And it is cool, because for the average person, they might not have the Star Wars guide to Aliens, so they have no idea what Han is talking about. Well, now they’ll finally get to see it in the show and it calls back to vintage SW in a fun way. As far as research, the people mentioned above would always be quick to identify the stuff that felt wrong or out of place so there was a good check and balance system. We all wanted to make something great, so there wasn’t much ego — we all knew what we had to do and put aside our interests to make a mind blowing Clone Wars series for you fans.
Dave: I like to use the vintage tidbits in design mainly. We draw a great deal of inspiration from Ralph McQuarrie because all of us truly believe he really defined the Star Wars look. For example, when we have hallways on Republic ships, I try to design, paint and light them like Star Destroyers so they foreshadow the Empire. Or sometimes we’ll grab little droids or creatures and stick them in here and there when we can to make it feel like the ‘full’ galaxy of vintage Star Wars. We do have to be careful though, as some fans have noticed especially with use of vintage dialogue, that while we love the classic films we can not repeat or replicate them.
Those films are amazing, but to do a good service to Star Wars we work best when we further the story and tell new stories that “feel” like Star Wars without repeating Star Wars. I think we had to get that out of our system early on in the series. We had a Rancor in the movie which I cut out. Well, The Force Unleashed game also had a Rancor and there are Rancors in EU stories as well and that’s because we all like the Rancor. So you think when you get the chance to do a Star Wars story, “Oh I love that Rancor! Lets do one, but have a Jedi and Sith fighting on his back!” Another common element is that it seems like every Star Wars story outside the films has some Jedi tempted by the dark side. We love that story, but we’ve all seen it before, so we have to challenge ourselves to tell exciting new stories. I think that vision has evolved as we have moved forward with the series. Plus, George was always there to remind us if we went to the well too much, “Hey, I’ve already done that!”
TFN: Can you talk a little about the balance you try to set between using pre-existing characters - Jedi in particular - and original ones?
Henry: It wasn’t really an issue of balance. When I wrote the first episode, I wished I could have used the entire Jedi Council, but because we were just building the studio, the only characters I had available were Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Mace wasn’t originally in the movie story, because he wasn’t built yet, he was added way later. This was the incredible challenge as the head writer, I was tasked with writing Star Wars and making it feel as big as Star Wars, but only allowed to build ONE new character per episode (I started with 9 — can you name them?). So Luminara and Kit showed up at the very first chance I could put them in the show. There were some characters that were easier to build because they didn’t have complicated facial rigs, like Plo, Nahdar, Rodians — and I was allowed to include them in those other episodes. I remember George would tell me in story meetings, “Put this character in! I want to see that guy!” And then as soon as we left the room, the producer would grab me, “Don’t you dare!” It was really tough, because I wanted to!
Dave: Yeah, I think people assume we do anything we want, but really the crew of Clone Wars has worked incredibly hard to constantly improve and expand everything we can do with each episode. Early on, it was hard to stage a nice scene with a crowd because there were no people. Luckily clones and droids all look alike so that saved us in the beginning. But an episode where Plo is trapped in an escape pod was a relief compared to Rugosa where we had to build an entirely new ‘coral world’ environment for “Ambush”.
Henry: Here’s some bits with deleted characters from early episodes --
Quinlan Vos was in an early draft of Bombad Jedi. He was working undercover and actually using his force abilities to make it look like Jar Jar WAS a Jedi. Jar Jar was even fooled himself for a while.
In the original final draft script of “Destroy Malevolence”, Captain Panaka was with Padme and captured by Grievous. Grievous brutally murdered Panaka and George really liked how we did it and approved it. But alas, when the producer demanded the script be rewritten — it was without Panaka. That version also included a lightsaber duel between Plo and Grievous on the exterior of the Malevolence in space that was freakin’ awesome — but don’t get me going! Sigh.
Dave: I did some concept paintings of that fight, Plo even had a different face mask to breath in space.
Henry: That mask is Plo-Kool! FYI, the Jedi originally got on board the Malevolence using ‘the carbonite infiltration manuever’, freezing themselves in carbonite to get past droid bio scans and radiation beams. Anakin had custom built this special mask for Plo to be frozen in carbonite, but it also worked in vacuum of space.
TFN: Now that the audience has seen both the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, do you feel more free to write him as a “good guy?” He comes off more favorably in the show than he does in Episode II or many of the comics and books set during the Clone Wars. Was this intentional?
Henry: Absolutely. George was disappointed that the fun, swashbuckling heroic side of Anakin never really came across in the movies and this is one of the first instructions that he gave to Dave and I. He wanted to show Anakin as that guy that Obi-Wan talks about as a truly great Jedi who was a champion of the Republic who was a hero saving lives. My nephew is 8 and he loves Anakin in the show. He told me that he likes Anakin so much, he hates to think about him as Darth Vader. When Anakin is in danger, my nephew really gets worried about him — he forgets that he lives. This lets me know that we’ve succeeded somewhat in revealing a whole other side to this great character — it’s been a pleasure and a privilege to participate in that. Showing Anakin as a hero that you love to watch be heroic, really makes his redemption that much more emotionally powerful.
Dave: In some ways I think Anakin in our series is always the Anakin I pictured as a kid. I really wanted him to be a cross of Han and Luke, cocky, but immature. I never thought that Anakin was a guy that went around committing atrocities, or drowning puppies. If he did, the Council seems really thick for not realizing what Anakin would become. Anakin has to be a good guy. Luke was a good guy, had friends, was a hero, and yet when he struck Vader down and the Emperor asked him to take his father’s place at his side, I really believed Luke might do it, that he might go to the Dark Side, even though Luke was never really “dark” before. The kinder Anakin is, the more his fall counts. He is a hero, who never believes that he betrays the Republic. He thinks he is a hero the whole time, and in the end he loses everything, until he is redeemed by his son. BUT for those of you who like the darker Anakin, be aware -- Anakin won’t be ‘toothless’ in the series. Especially in season 2, we see him tend to “do what needs to be done”, foreshadowing his choice to align with Palpatine. Though some of these actions might not seem dark at first.
TFN: Describe how you see the Jedi viewing the clones, and vice-versa.
Henry: In my mind, the Jedi see the clones as individuals, living beings that have the same right to life as any other being, but understand that they have a job to do. I’d rather not get into the Jedi’s philosophical issues about an army of living beings created to fight, but the Jedi are in a tough spot themselves, being peacekeepers turned warriors trying to save the Republic. The clones see the Jedi as their commanding officers on one hand, but also, at least subconsciously, they look to them for clues to social \ moral behavior. Some clones may find themselves getting philosophical leadership from the Jedi that helps them answer some of the deeper questions of life. We saw Yoda demonstrate this in Ambush.
Dave: I truly believe that the Jedi try to humanize their clones and make them more individual, as Henry says. I think we saw that in Revenge of the Sith, when the Clones were colorful and named under the Jedi Generals, and then in the final shots of the film with Palpatine and Vader near the new Death Star, the ships are grey, the color and life is sucked out. The Stormtroopers are only numbers and identified by black and white armor or uniforms in A New Hope. Tie-fighters don’t have shields, the soldiers have become disposable to the Emperor — that is something the Jedi would never do. The color leaving the Clone’s armor is representative of the Clones becoming Stormtroopers and the army losing it’s individuality —it was the death of the “good soldier”. At least that’s how I see it.
TFN: Your show clearly draws a lot of inspiration from the Original Trilogy. What is the trick to capturing the OT’s “magic?”
Henry: It’s a secret recipe. Star Wars brew, 4 cups swashbuckling characters, teaspoon of weird aliens, 8 ounces of strange creatures, 2 cups of spaceships, tablespoon of lightsabers, preferably ‘on’, stir in a ‘dash’ of the mystical \ magical nature of the Force, sift in some comedy to taste, blend well with a timeless, yet fresh fairytale theme that everybody can grab onto. Bake for 9 months to a year, garnish with Kevin Kiner and Matt Wood and viola! Eat your heart out, Disney Channel.
Dave: I think it is nearly impossible to capture the magic of those old films, though we attempt to do so on a daily basis. I feel we have a couple that come close now, and that’s definitely due to George’s direct involvement. They have a magic to them, funny but adventurous, a little dark. One in particular with Obi Wan as the focus comes to mind, Henry knows the one I mean.
Henry: That episode is going to blow fan’s minds with the (DELETED), and the (DELETED). I never thought George would let us (DELETED).
TFN: Will we ever get to see “heroes” of the Separatists? Perhaps an episode from the viewpoint of a rank-and-file Separatist to contrast with both the faceless automatons that comprise the droid army and the evil that leads both the Republic and the CIS?
Henry: Let’s call this a hard YES. Steven Melching and I have a story planned for the Clone Wars comic book that hits on this pretty hard. I’m not really sure if season 3 has any stories like this.
Dave: I think there is an evolution to the way the audience is asked to look at the war. Some views that we did not see in season one will evolve in season two, and the inevitable question “but isn’t Dooku’s criticism of the Republic being corrupt true?” may come up, but it evolves slowly as far out as season three.
TFN: Who is your favorite character to write for?
Henry: Obi-Wan. James Arnold Taylor does such a great job voicing Obi-Wan, I’m always amazed how he brings Ben to life. You’d think writing the Clones would be boring, but Dee Baker has this amazing ability to make them sound the same, yet individuals. I owe a lot to that guy, he’s one of the best actors I’ve ever had the pleasure to write for. Same goes for Dooku and Corey Burton — that guy is freak and can do any voice, but the dripping menace he gives the Count is amazing. Of course, I like writing Kit, Mace, Ahsoka, Padme, Jabba, heck all of them. There’s a new Bounty Hunter character that Dave and I created, Cad Bane, who I had a blast writing — when his episode comes on, I’d love to answer more questions about him.
Dave: I think Henry was always good at writing Obi Wan and Yoda definitely. I always felt I could do Anakin dialogue a good service since he’s such an “American guy” and I always though my Western Pennsylvanian way of talking and phrasing things helped there. As a director you get to drive the writers crazy because in editorial or working with the actors you can go “ I don’t think he’d say it that way” and just change it then and there. Henry loved that.
Henry: We had a few ‘creative discussions’ at the recording sessions.
TFN: Do you have a plan for why Ahsoka doesn’t appear in Revenge of the Sith?
Henry: Hmmm. Are you asking about the ‘theatrical’ version of Revenge of the Sith or the ‘Special Complete Perfect “Plo Doesn’t Die” Edition’ Revenge of the Sith? Psssst... You guys have no idea how powerful Filoni is getting at the Ranch.
Dave: There is some truth to what Henry is saying. I once pitched George the idea that Plo had a parachute and that he bailed out of his fighter before it crashed. Then George said he would only continue the scene and make Plo’s death more painful, I think his parachute was going to catch fire and he falls on something sharp. I even pitched Plo being added at the end of Return of the Jedi as a Blue Ghost but that didn’t go over either. As for Ahsoka’s future... I have ideas, even outlines that answer your question very specifically.
Henry: George likes to tease Dave about his affection for Plo. Early on in one meeting he said, “Only a diseased mind thinks Plo Koon is the best character.” That always cracked me up... but George ended up being really impressed with how Plo came to life in the series.
TFN: What are your thoughts of Count Dooku? Why is he depicted as someone so evil in The Clone Wars? True, he is a Sith Lord, but if you watch the movies (especially AOTC), he truly believes his cause is a just one, and we see his conviction of this belief. I feel he is not evil, but a tragic hero that felt he had to leave the Jedi Order because the Jedi were jumping through hoops for a corrupt and unfair government. In the end, he turn out to be right of course. What do you think? Will we be seeing episodes sympathetic to Count Dooku and his cause?
Henry: I agree, Count Dooku wasn’t always evil and he was once a great Jedi. He definitely is an idealist who had the right intentions, but in turning to the Dark Side his methods became twisted and evil. I guess you’re right from Dooku’s point of view, evil people never think they are evil. As far as seeing an episode that is sympathetic to Dooku — unlikely because innocent men, women and children die everyday by the thousands because he has co-engineered this war to get power, and that, my friend — is what evil people do.
Dave: Henry has this dead on, I agree, Dooku was once idealistic, and he is correct, from his point of view, but he has embraced evil to gain power. Many people start out with good intentions and then go afoul. If he was truly a Jedi and true to his benevolent intentions, he should have put his weapon down and not fought at all. Rather than show Dooku as a good guy, it is more likely that we will point out similar flaws in the Jedi and their part in the war.
TFN: How much freedom do you have in writing the show? Are certain characters/locations/plots off limits?
Henry: When I started writing the show bible, George said, “Stay away from Han, Chewie, Boba Fett and Jabba.” Well... George changed his mind about Jabba at the very next meeting. George also said, “And don’t go to any of the planets I went to in the films.” Then eight months later he changed his mind, “Let’s go to ‘DELETED’. What if there’s a secret Separatist base on ‘DELETED’?” So let’s just say we’ll see some familiar Star Wars places besides Tatooine. Lots more cool new planets though. George gave us a tremendous amount of freedom on the show.
Dave: George is always good at listening to ideas. He does pitch us every story now and gives us rather detailed outlines. In first season, it was a little different, but now a lot of the time George will come in and say, “I want to do a story about ‘X’.” Now the part you are all interested in — if what he pitches includes areas that are covered in the EU — this is my only real chance to get the EU material in on the ground floor of the story, right at the beginning, when George presents his idea. I will bring up ideas that are similar in the EU, or talk about how that particular group of characters already has a backstory. Sometimes I would print out whole Wookiepedia entries and show it to him, but now I use the big official encyclopedia set. In the end it is up to George whether it counts or not and that’s his right as the creator of the Star Wars Universe.
TFN: Will we see characters evolve visually as the series progresses, as in changing outfits and Ahsoka aging?
Henry: As you imagine if you’re in space you might need a helmet and if you go to a planet that is cold you might need a jacket... and Ahsoka should put some pants on! She’ll catch a cold! Dave knows more about this....
Dave: I’ve been working on alternate looks for many of the characters, costume changes, special uses costumes, etc. I am also very interested in seeing Ahsoka age as the war progresses as well as Anakin, so stay tuned...
TFN: Asking on behalf of all Star Wars timeline enthusiasts everywhere - How do you see the Clone Wars cartoon: as more an anthology of events that happened during the war, or as a chronologically designated sequence? In particular, do the episodes air in chronological order, or rather in a more loosely defined order that allows for chronological shuffling as necessary.
Henry: I advise you timeline fans to just watch and enjoy the episodes as they come on and try not to stress too much about the chronology. Otherwise you will be driven to glazy eyed, drool induced madness! Seriously, to answer the question, let’s just say that George is keeping alive his storytelling methods of ‘prequels’ and ‘sequels’ within the series. So get out your calculators and bar graphs and time machines, you’re gonna need ‘em!
Dave: The episodes do not air chronologically, but I have plans to help timeline enthusiasts understand the chronology as I know it is important to you guys
Henry: I did pitch an idea for an exhaustive Time-Life style ‘Clone Wars’ history book, but I got the feeling there wasn’t much interest.
TFN: How does your writing process work, and what role does George Lucas play in it?
Henry: On the first 13 episodes I wrote premises with Dave that went to George for approval, he made his notes, then we went through outline and script phase and George would see the scripts when Dave and I and Catherine were happy with them, he’d make notes and the scripts would go final.
On most shows, that would be the end of the writing process, but on Clone Wars, that’s about ‘the middle’ of the writing process, because once the episodes get into animatic \ story reel in editorial, Dave and George go through them, rewriting, adding and subtracting, etc...
Halfway through the first season, George was so excited with what we were doing, he came in one day with an outline and handed it to me, “Turn that into a script.” It was a story called ‘Count Dooku Captured.” From then on, George got into the writing \ scripting process in a big
way. On season two, ALL of the story ideas came from George, except a couple that were originally written in season one by Dave and I (& Dini). I think season three is the same way.
Dave: Writing process? Oh right, well it’s pretty much what Henry described above.
TFN: Will we see any bounty hunters working for the Separatists or even the Republic?
Henry: Yes. But seriously, does anybody really want to see ‘DELETED’ and ‘DELETED’? Me too, I always like the blaster ‘DELETED’ has, but wait until you see their new (old?) ship. If you’re good, maybe you’ll get a little ‘DELETED’ too!
Dave: Yes... what Henry said.
TFN: So what is the deal with General Grievous’ origin? There’s the first version with the shuttle crash where Dooku upgraded him and there’s the new one with him choosing to upgrade himself. Why the different versions?
Henry: George envisioned something different than what was created for the EU and Dave and I jumped at the chance to explore that. In my mind, the EU origin created a character that was twisted and bitter and very tragic, but not very fun. The great thing about Vader in A New Hope is, as soon as you see him onscreen, you want to boo him. He’s so over the top evil. Same with the Emperor. They are pure evil and they are fun — bad guys you love to hate! Well, until we know who Vader is. Anyway, knowing that poor old Grievous has this background as a noble warrior who was fighting for his people, then was sadly tricked my Dooku reduced him to a straight up pawn, who was played by the seppies, because he really wasn’t the master of his own destiny, he was more a product of Dooku’s evil machinations than his own pride and villainy. It was more in Grievous’ character (as created by George Lucas) to choose to upgrade himself, because he chose to sacrifice his ‘humanity’ for the power to become the greatest killer in the galaxy. He wasn’t able to do it via The Force, so he chose to make himself into a mechanical monster that dominated the most powerful beings in the galaxy, the Force users, the Jedi. Grievous is not a tragic character, he’s a cold blooded mass murderer, a classic old school villain (and different from Vader) in that he doesn’t have any redeeming characteristics. What kind of a vain egomaniac has statues of himself in his house? Maybe one who is trying to convince himself he did the right thing.
Dave: I tried to talk about this in the commentary I do online. Henry and I knew this would be a big one for EU fans. I tend to think of the Episode “Lair of Grievous” as a look more into the mind of Grievous. How you interpret the story depends largely on what backstory you like. If you believe Grievous was shot down in a shuttle by Dooku and put back together, I think that story is there, it’s just that Grievous has invented this new “story” of choosing his alterations. If you don’t believe in the EU version of the story or didn’t like it, then perhaps this new revelation that Grievous was a warrior whose lust for power made him choose to be altered, suits you better. Again a great many of the truths we cling to depend largely on our own point of view. Grievous was a great warrior in both stories, he was a Kaleesh in both stories, the major differences depend on what you believe about his past. In the end I have to say this, many die hard EU fans pick and choose the stories they think are canon based on what they like and what they don’t like. They read a novel they like it and it’s ‘in’, they don’t like it, and it’s ‘out.’ Well, we get our like and dislike in the EU directly from George and he created Star Wars, I have to say that’s a pretty big trump card. Regardless, much effort goes into trying to word things or shoot things so that the existing EU can remain, if only at times from a certain point of view.